Poe So Sick Of Chaos Dmg

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So only damage matters, not DoT duration? Have you ever heard the phrase 'dead man walking'? That's what my targets do after I move on to the next victim.

After a certain period of time the longer duration is worthless as long as I can reapply the status prior to it expiring and can do a few other things in the mean time without focusing entirely on the DoT. If I can't reapply it easily, then a longer duration is even more worthless then a higher dps shorter duration DoT that I can spam and stack.
For duration to be of value I need to be able to hit groups with it and apply it to them all at once, then it becomes a fire and forget AoE DoT like the old firewalls/poison clouds from other games. This turns it from a possible main attack into a secondary skill that is only used to refresh the DoT. Single target main attacks are always DPS focused since after all you are trying to kill it BEFORE it kills you. Additionally, if its your main attack then your going to be refreshing it constantly anyway (making it last longer is useless if you keep renewing it).

Posted by
Jiero
on Nov 6, 2013, 7:11:22 PM

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1. Desync
2. Neglected Skills
3. Lack of Passive Diversity
4. Nerfing isn't balancing

1. Desync is why I don't run HC, this thing got me killed so many times..
It bother me, but I will not end up quitting the game for this as a casual player.
Knowing that GGG is very aware of this topic is enough for me to move on, this is a long term fight where players should support the dev and stop complaining.
I'm not saying that your post is a complain, OP. In fact, I have some friends who won't start PoE because of it. So it's a valid point.
2. I have a huge amount of skill in my chest. Collector's habbit. I try to use them all. But you are right. Some of them clearly are not viable against other. I abandoned almost all the skills you listed. Hell, I tried Whirling Blades for the first time yesterday. Put it back due to huge desync and not worth it.
One day, I will use some of them when using a specific build to use them. But that's the point. They are niche gems.
Other are utility, and everybody will use them, for specific purpose. Like Devouring Totem / Detonate Dead.
DoT is good, but it's boring, you lose time. Time you could have used to farm more.. But yeah against boss ! conditionnal situation, so it fall under 'underused'.
Totally agree with OP. But I don't see why it should change that much, apart for point 4.
3. This is totally right.. in some ways. I usually end up picking defensive node when things go bad. The thing is: like offensive node, people need them, and will pick them up.
The problem I see is that it's really hard to have a very good defense compared to have good offense, and this is where it goes wrong and you are right. People end up with lot of armour and life or lot of armour and energy shield with CI, granite flask, enduring cry, molten shell.
There is not enough diversity in defense. They exists, but underused. And if they are underused, it must be for a reason.
This is a impression, maybe if GGG have number on the number of endgame build that use evade chance, armour, and energy shield and all hybrid combinaison respectively, we could be proven wrong.
I also hope they release evasion gem or other defensive gem. And because they announce new gem in minor version, I'm sure it will not be that long before then.
4. I disagree with you, nerfing shock is a good thing. Cold and Fire damage could not keep up to Lighting. Then why nerf it instead of buffing Cold and Fire ? It was insanely too powerfull even compared to physical, at the point where I was saying mostly a quarter of the player using spork.
Not buffing what should be buffed is a valid point though. I hope they will buff some gems that no one is using anymore, but the difficulty is that niche build might be overpowered. And you can't know until someone found the right build (I even remember Marc saying something along this lines).
So I will do the player's job: explore builds around skill no one use in order to post a valid feedback on why or why not a skill should be buff. And other should do that, because I'm not a hardcore gamer, and only reached level 67 for now.
5. Unrelated to your original post but to the conversations going on: people should read others post. And by read, I mean understand it.
There is so few posts worth reading on this forum, and yours was good.
Take this one for exemple :

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Real_Wolf wrote:

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Please go white knighting GGG some more. GGG can make no mistake. There's nothing wrong with Path of Exile. Best game ever that needs no improvement at all, even though it's barely better than the steaming pile of shit that Diablo 3 is.

Good job with an ad hominem attack. Always a sign of losing an argument when you have to resort to attacking someone.

You made a good argument, then a exemple, then someone quote your exemple without the argument, and then attack you.
Ironically, providing another good exemple of your argument..
When people can understand post, they can read what is good to keep.
So yeah, Real_Wolf is very right in saying that some of the good post are made by players who love the game. We love the game, and that's why we want it to be perfect, and point out what is wrong so it's not anymore when ggg fix it and then we can mock all other game on how ggg is better because they listen to our point of view.
But Real_Wolf, even you are messing up the forum. Even if OP is raging, there is still something good to learn from it. But then, all I see after his post is people missreading him.
It is quite unbelievable that the only post you were raging was your original, it's like you actually use the ragging as a way to get attention. Then you discuss arguments like a sir. Well played. If you read this, and I'm sure you will, the answer to your rage is in point 4 (I mean, the name you choose for your account is path of nerfs, right ?).
Now: 6. I have friends that keep playing other games (mainly sc2 and lol, a some d3) and some that came once and didn't come back. THIS is why the game is not popular for them :
1- the game is in english. A lot of French people are bad with english, don't ask me why, i'm not part of this category.
2- the game is heavily intend for people who like to think about builds, skills, supports, interactions within them and test them out. Most of them should NOT play PoE because it's not the targetted audience.
3- the game took time to have fun with. Until you begin linking gems and have fun with support, it is mainly a simple arpg. Also, you don't have that lot many gems and choice of gems at first. I think that if they had more choice of gem (did they begin to do that ? I have the impression I had more choice than before..), but also more mean to get gems, the game would be more interisting for them.
If more low level uniques would drop, that would be a good idea to hook players to stay the first day too. But misleading.. whatever works :)
Have no time to reread and correct mistake. sorry.

Guide français : http://sites.google.com/view/poefr/

Posted by
vindoq
on Nov 6, 2013, 7:18:08 PM

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So only damage matters, not DoT duration? Have you ever heard the phrase 'dead man walking'? That's what my targets do after I move on to the next victim.

After you move on and eventually come back to check drops?
Point being, you can increase the duration of Burn as well, the only other DoT in the game. There are several ways, including uniques and passives, to increase the duration as well as the DoT. Viper Strike only has gem levels and vulnerability.

Not everyone's into farming trash mobs, I only glance back at the drops after the dust settles.
And pardon me, but I totally face-palmed over that 'only other DoT in the game' gaff you just dropped. Have you never heard of Bleeding, or maybe you just haven't yet made it to the Warehouse district?
But here's what debunks the 'undercover expert' theory on your recent forum emergence: You totally missed the secret weapon that powers DoT builds: Temporal Chains. We've had Curse on Hit long before 1.0.0 arrived:

Last edited by RogueMage on Nov 6, 2013, 9:21:18 PM

Posted by
RogueMage
on Nov 6, 2013, 9:16:30 PM

As always when a thread like this is made by someone with a LOT of experience, he will be taken to task by a bunch of people with characters not in maps. I get that many of you like alts, and of course, play how you like. People who are competitive by nature tend to rush end game, and that is clearly who this thread is addressed to.
Example: Viper strike. Viper strike is flat out amazing through cruel and most of merciless. The same can be said for poison arrow. Once the zone levels get a little higher, they become next to useless (the exception of viper strike being as I mentioned before, keeping Bosses from Regening ES while you kite until the next opening.)
If you are a player who enjoys playing the end game, it sucks to see a skill you enjoy all of the sudden become next to useless, and that is what OP is addressing.
For reference, it takes between 45 minutes and 1 hour to kill first form merc dominus with viper strike + faster attacks + melee phys damage (melee phys doesn't have the DoT obviously, but it adds a nice impact to the initial hit.)
45 minutes to 1 hour is TOO LONG, when my 67 marauder can facetank first form merc dom in under a minute. That's a disparity, and one that any reasonable person should agree could be addressed.

Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt
Domination/Nemesis T shirt
Tempest/War Bands T shirt

Posted by
reboticon
on Nov 6, 2013, 10:19:45 PM

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1. Desync
2. Neglected Skills
3. Lack of Passive Diversity
4. Nerfing isn't balancing

1. I'm getting so sick of hearing about desync. It's a problem. We all know about it. Move on.
2. The balance process is a slow one, but there's progress. I agree they could put more effort into buffing weak skills, but last time they did they we got Discharge. Something doesn't have to be either UP or OP, it's okay to have some skills in between the two extremes..
3. I'm neutral. Sure, we need lots of defense but what alternatives could exist? Not needing a lot of defense? That wouldn't be much more variety, just a different type of sameness. There could be a better suite of leveling skills, particularly for casters, but that gets back into #2
4. Yea, but Spork Totem builds were kinda OP and needed a nerf. You have a point that nerfing Righteous Fire may have been enough, and I like your acknowledgment that having one best option doesn't mean it's overpowered ipso facto. It could be that the alternatives are all underpowered. Deep down, I think GGG even knows it too.
Look at the huge life buff in 1.0: rather than buff underpowered skills or nerf overpowered monsters, GGG prefers to offer global buffs to all players regardless of their disposition in the game, coupled with some nerfs to some of the better tools that players had. But if it was needing overcapped resistances before then it's still the same thing. Or if it was self-one-shotting from reflect/lit-thorns it's still the same problem. The method of balancing is convoluted and is going to be make much slower progress than making targeted changes to address problems directly. Not only does it fail to move the pressure points, it knocks previously tuned areas out of balance. I'm tempted to describe it like throwing out the baby and keeping the bathwater.

Posted by
PolarisOrbit
on Nov 6, 2013, 11:01:59 PM

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As always when a thread like this is made by someone with a LOT of experience, he will be taken to task by a bunch of people with characters not in maps. I get that many of you like alts, and of course, play how you like. People who are competitive by nature tend to rush end game, and that is clearly who this thread is addressed to.
Example: Viper strike. Viper strike is flat out amazing through cruel and most of merciless. The same can be said for poison arrow. Once the zone levels get a little higher, they become next to useless (the exception of viper strike being as I mentioned before, keeping Bosses from Regening ES while you kite until the next opening.)
If you are a player who enjoys playing the end game, it sucks to see a skill you enjoy all of the sudden become next to useless, and that is what OP is addressing.
For reference, it takes between 45 minutes and 1 hour to kill first form merc dominus with viper strike + faster attacks + melee phys damage (melee phys doesn't have the DoT obviously, but it adds a nice impact to the initial hit.)
45 minutes to 1 hour is TOO LONG, when my 67 marauder can facetank first form merc dom in under a minute. That's a disparity, and one that any reasonable person should agree could be addressed.

Is this using empower with a +2/+1 weapon?
Does this include the vulnerability dps incraese
And a poison cloud in a +2/+1 empower bow aswell?
Are you using shock stacks to boost the dps?
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/374672
Look at the dps that build puts out, sure its not the best dps in the game, but thats pretty damn good dps
maybe you are just using the skill wrong if its taking you that long to kill merc dom?

Posted by
Real_Wolf
on Nov 6, 2013, 11:28:50 PM

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I'm not over-generalizing players, I'm making a blatant observation about builds that are proven to work. I typically also stick to Hardcore leagues and the builds that seem to make it the farthest are, oddly enough, the builds that tend to stack defense more than they do offense. If picking up ridiculous amounts of offensive nodes was viable, I can't help but assume we'd be seeing more of those in circulation.
For the exception of ES based builds, really only CI, the value of defense is higher than the value of offense.
What does the creation date of this account have to do with the topic at hand? Curious why you continuously harp on that.

yes you are and you just did it again. you are using the ladder to tell me what is 'best' and then making assumptions that we all build that way too, i am telling you that 'best' is subjective. many of us do not give 2 shits about what fotm builds get the 'farthest' and instead see what WE can get the farthest. that maybe a glass cannon, yes people in HC build glass cannons even though..gulp..the ladder may not have any on it.
so again, its all there for you to build as you wish only one forcing you into these builds you keep mentioning is you. i also guarantee you there are OP builds you haven't even thought of yet that GGG knows we haven't begun to exploit.

~SotW HC Guild~

Posted by
scorpitron
on Nov 7, 2013, 12:01:15 AM

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i also guarantee you there are OP builds you haven't even thought of yet that GGG knows we haven't begun to exploit.

*cough* Burn based fire trap OP for maps since before increased burning dmg support, but no one noticed *cough*
There are powerful builds out there that very few people use. The actual chaos acolyte build which is a lot of fun to play, is also incredibly powerful, yet its a build almost no one will ever play

Posted by
Real_Wolf
on Nov 7, 2013, 12:26:23 AM

This was a very good read. I agreed with most of what you wrote.

Posted by
Chued666
on Nov 7, 2013, 1:40:58 AM

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i also guarantee you there are OP builds you haven't even thought of yet that GGG knows we haven't begun to exploit.

*cough* Burn based fire trap OP for maps since before increased burning dmg support, but no one noticed *cough*
There are powerful builds out there that very few people use. The actual chaos acolyte build which is a lot of fun to play, is also incredibly powerful, yet its a build almost no one will ever play

That's funny because you clearly never played one based on your account character history. I stray away from 72+ map discussions because I've never played maps that high before, usually only 66-70.
I will say that people like you are the reason why Path of Exile has so much wrong with it in the first place. Rather than making the game more accessible, you just want it to be this idiotic grinder with massive 1 shot gear checks all the time where you have to grind and struggle just to make some weak ass skill to work even half decently, when you could have just run some cookie cutter build and been 300% more efficient.

Last edited by allbusiness on Nov 7, 2013, 1:51:24 AM

Posted by
allbusiness
on Nov 7, 2013, 1:43:09 AM